35, Radom, 1938, Starting price 1.200 EUR. Result Detail. Calibre 9 mm Parabellum, no. Matching numbers. From Polish quality pre-war production of 1938. Left on slide Polish eagle and patent data.
My personal candidate for the most depressing national idea is embodied in the Polish anthem, “Jeszcze Polska nie zginęła”, also known as “Noch ist Polen nicht verloren” or “Poland has not yet perished”. Arguably the best military handgun of WWII, Radom Vis 35 is probably its unluckiest small arm, with most of the remaining Polish Eagles vanishing into the Stalinist void as mute witnesses to the 1940 extermination of the Polish officer corps in Katyń. Nevertheless, on 19 May 1942, SIG included a Radom in its choice of five contemporaneous service handguns to test for accuracy in preparation for the development of their candidate for the next Swiss service sidearm, eventually adopted as the Pistole 49 and designated commercially as the P210. As documented by Erwin Armbruster, this is what they got in 8 shots fired at 50 meters:- Walther P38: 12.0cm from rest/14.5 cm offhand
- Radom Vis35: 18.5cm from rest/17.0 cm offhand
- Colt M1911: 30.0cm from rest/42.0 cm offhand
- 9mm Luger 06/29: 5.5cm from rest/11.5 cm offhand
- 7.65 Luger 06/29: 5.8cm from rest/9.0 cm offhand
As described by RIA:
Lot #: 1646Of course, $4,600.00 is a lot of money to pay for any gun. But the Radom Vis 35 is an expensive pistol to make. Its discontinued 1992 Lucznik reissue has long since sold out, priced at $2,300. And as regards its intrinsic quality, the Polish Eagle Radom will match any M1911 ever made, with top-notch custom specimens of the latter fetching that much or more these days. For that matter, if your taste tends towards pre-war Colts, consider this Colt National Match Government Model fetching $12,000.00 + 15% buyer’s premium, and this one going for a whopping $17,000.00 + 15%, in the same sale. So much for the economic downturn that affects us all.
Estimated Price: $5,500 - $7,000
Scarce Pre-WWII Polish Radom Model 1935 Automatic Pistol
Serial #: 35428
Manufacturer: Radom
Model: Vis 35
Type: Pistol
Gauge: 9 mm Luger
Catalog Page: 55
Barrel Length: 4-3/4 inch round
Finish: blue
Grip: plastic Stock: N/A
Description: Produced only up to serial number 49400. The pistol has the polished satin blue finish and checkered black plastic grips. The grips have “VIS” molded into the right grip and “FB” into the left. This pre-war “three lever” pistol has the decoking lever, slide stop and takedown lever on the left side of the slide and frame. A stock slot is milled into the rear of the grip strap. The left side of the slide is marked Polish Eagle and “VIS-wz.35 / pat. Nr.15567”. The serial number “35428” is located on the right side of the frame above the trigger. Proof and inspection marks are stamped on both sides of the trigger guard bow and on the left side of the slide ahead of the decocking lever. The magazine has a blue finish and is unmarked. After the fall of Poland in early WWII the Polish Radom pistols became a secondary issue weapon used widely throughout WWII by the Wehrmacht.
Condition: Excellent with 98% blue finish overall showing edge and high spot wear with some minor thinning and spotting on the lower frame. The grips are excellent. Tough to find in this high condition.
Back in pre-war Poland, this complete rig SN 8093 in a lower condition went for $7,500.00 + 15%, whereas this much touted early SN 0019 went for $4,250.00 + 15%. Even this postwar mixmaster SN 48915 went for $1,400.0 + 15%.
But for me, last weekend’s surprise was this well worn, garden variety Tokarev TT-33 selling for $1,600.00 + 15%. Regrettably, U.S. laws forbid the import of pistols lacking a positive safety device. Hence the market conditions multiplying the value of a $300 pistol.
P.S. This gun sold for $4,312.00 in the James D. Julia Spring Firearms Auction 2008. I am heartened to exemplify the Greater Fool Theory, even if auction commissions caused the seller to take a loss in our transaction.Radom P-35(p) [Pistole Modell 645(p)]
Polish designation = Pistolet wz. 35 Vis
(Mfg by Fabryka Broni w Radomu, assembled by Steyr-Daimler Puch A. G.)
(Click PIC to Enlarge)
Caliber: ........................ 9mm Parabellum
Rifling & Twist: .............. 6 groove, right-hand twist
Barrel Length: ............... 4.72 in. (120mm)
Overall Length: ............. 6.93 in. (176mm)
Weight: ........................ 2.5 lbs. - 1.123 kg (loaded), 0.950 kg (unloaded)
Magazine Capacity: ....... 8 rounds
Qty Mfg: ....................... Approximately 400,000
Source: .... www.gunsworld.com', Vis (weapon) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Radom VIS35
(16 picture virtual tour)
Observations: (by 'Claven2')Rifling & Twist: .............. 6 groove, right-hand twist
Barrel Length: ............... 4.72 in. (120mm)
Overall Length: ............. 6.93 in. (176mm)
Weight: ........................ 2.5 lbs. - 1.123 kg (loaded), 0.950 kg (unloaded)
Magazine Capacity: ....... 8 rounds
Qty Mfg: ....................... Approximately 400,000
Source: .... www.gunsworld.com', Vis (weapon) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Radom VIS35
(16 picture virtual tour)
Note: Pics of rifle provided courtesy of Milsurps.com member 'Claven2'.
Borrowing design characteristics and features of pistols designed by John Browning and Dieudonne Saive such as the M1911 and the Hi-power, the Radom wz. 35 VIS was first tested in 1931 in Poland. Originally referred to as the WiS (an acronym of the Polish designers' names), the pistol was renamed VIS, meaning 'power' in Latin. The wz designation being used with all Polish arms, standing for wzór (model).
At the time, the VIS was generally regarded as one of the best military pistols available when series production started at the State Armory in Radom in late 1935, while the following year it was adopted as the standard weapon of Polish infantry and cavalry officers. Early guns were milled in the mainspring housing to accept a shoulder stock that though designed and prototyped, in practise was never issued.
Before the 1939 Invasion of Poland (by Nazi Germany), approximately 49,400 (out of 90,000 ordered) were delivered to Polish forces. After the Polish defeat that same year, the Germans took over the Radom factory and continued production of the gun, assigning it the standardized name of 9 mm Pistole 645(p) which is often referred to as the P 35(p). Up to 1945, between 312,000 and 380,000 were produced for the German Reich, where they were issued primarily to the SS, the Fallschimjager (paratroopers) and police.
Soon after occupation of factory, the Germans moved production of P35(p) barrels to the Steyr works in Austria in an effort to prevent complete pistols from falling into the hands of the Polish resistance. As a result, resistance forces were obliged to manufacture crude barrels in underground shops - ultimately several hundred VIS pistols were smuggled from the factory, fitted with barrels, and provided to the Home Army for use in the Warsaw Uprising.
In 1944 as German forces were in retreat to the advancing Soviets, all production was moved to the Steyr works in Austria where the VIS remained in production until April 1945.
Pistols made after 1939 (under German occupation) were manufactured in three distinct variations, each with small modifications to simplify production. Generally, the wartime German-produced VIS pistols were of much lower quality than the pre-war Polish made guns. By the end of the war, quality dropped off rapidly and the pistols became very crude, though still functional.
Poland did not restart production after the war. The country had fallen under the Soviet sphere of influence and forces in Poland adopted a Polish-built version of the Tokarev TT-33 to serve as the issue sidearm.
Collector's Comments and Feedback:
1. When looking at acquiring a Radom VIS for your collection, it is wise to first determine wha variant you are looking for and whether the available piece will match your expectations or not. As mentioned in the Observations write-up, there are really four distinct variations out there.
The first pistols, made before the German takeover, were marked on the left side of the slide with a fairly large Polish eagle. On either side of the eagle are two line markings - F.B.Radom over the date on the left side, and 'VIS-wz 35' over a patent number on the right side. These pre-war guns (at the time of this writing in 2008) can (and do) bring upwards of $3000 in North America, depending on condition. The same gun with legitimate German markings added (indicating it was captured at the factory or depot level) can bring even more, if in top condition. These Radoms are commonly referred to as 'Polish Eagle' or 'Polish Eagle, Nazi capture'. Some Polish references call these two 'pre-war' versions 'Group One.'
The guns bearing a single line rollstamp on the slide without the Polish eagle was manufactured during the period of Nazi occupation. There are three recognized types of occupation-made VIS pistols (The Polish reference material designations are in brackets); Type I (or Group 2) has the slide stop , decocker (on the slide) and the takedown lever(on the frame) and is sometimes referred to as a 'three lever gun'. These also have the mainspring housing milled for a shoulder stock which, to the best of my knowledge, was never issued in service.
Type II (Group 3) pistols have the shoulder stock cut eliminated and some other changes, including elimination of the grip screw bushings. The depicted pistol is a Type II.
Type III (Group 4) pistols have the takedown lever eliminated. Instead of using the lever to lock back the slide for disassembly, the decocker is pushed down so its tail rests in a notch in the hammer. There are many other minor changes to speed up production, including much sacrifice in fit and finish. Type II and III guns are by far the most commonly encountered variants, though Type II, being better made, are generally more sought after.
After the Soviets over-ran the Radom factory, Type III Radom production was moved completely to the Steyr works in Austria. Most of this late-war Steyr production run was issued with crude wooden grips. Fully Steyr-produced guns are rarer and more valuable than production at Radom under Nazi occupation, and a few VERY rare pieces marked with the 'BNZ' in lieu of the Radom rollstamp are worth even more. The BNZ code (as used on Steyr made K98k rifles) was only applied to less than 1000 pistols while the machinery used for slide rollstamp was undergoing installation at the Steyr Works. The standard slide rollmark was then used until end of the war. .......... (Feedback by 'Claven2')